Bruce speaks with Harvard Law Professor Cass Sunstein about the power of nudging, decision-making, and the ethical implications of behavioural economics. They talk about how small changes in choice architecture can significantly impact people’s behaviour – sometimes for the better, but also with potential for harm. Sunstein, co-author of Nudge, shares his thoughts on how businesses, governments, and individuals can harness the power of nudging responsibly while avoiding manipulation.
Credit: AP: Trump’s budget office rescinds an order freezing spending on social grants
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Cass on nudges
The date this episode was published marked exactly two months since Donald Trump took office. What about his decisions? They’ve got some people seriously worried – including Professor Cass Sunstein who recently wrote about them in the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/26/opinion/trump-roberts-unitary-executive-theory.html .
Professor Sunstein is no stranger to presidents. He was Barak Obama’s Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, where he applied behavioral insights to improve government regulations. He is an expert in how and why people make the decisions they do, and in getting them to make better ones. His best-seller, written with Richard Thaler, Nudge, is all about exactly that and has influenced the way governments around the globe think about policy. Bruce met Cass at a conference and couldn’t pass up the chance to find out more about this revolutionary thinking that has changed the world.
[00:00] Introduction
- The role of decision-making in everyday life
- How small nudges influence behaviour
[02:15] The Return of Trump and Its Impact
- The decision-making process in politics
- Cass Sunstein’s concerns about power shifts in government
[05:30] What is a Nudge?
- Defining the concept of nudging
- The balance between freedom of choice and influence
[10:15] The Science Behind Nudging
- Why humans are susceptible to nudges
- How choice architecture shapes behaviour
- The role of the brain in processing decisions
[14:00] Real-World Applications of Nudging
- How nudging is used in public policy and business
- The role of automatic enrolment in behaviour change
[18:45] The Ethics of Nudging
- The potential dangers of nudging for manipulation
- Dark patterns in marketing and politics
- The responsibility of governments and corporations
[22:30] The Power of Repetition & Misinformation
- The illusory truth effect: why repetition makes falsehoods believable
- Social media’s role in amplifying misinformation
[26:00] Final Thoughts
- The importance of ethical decision-making
- How to apply nudging principles in everyday life
Key Quotes:
“If something’s easier to process in the mind, people tend to think it’s true.”
“Nudging isn’t about forcing—it’s about guiding choices while preserving freedom.”
“If you don’t make any decision, things will turn out alright for you.”
“The social media environment in which we live distributes falsehood much more quickly than truth.”
“We need counter-nudges against misinformation to ensure people make informed choices.”
Further Reading & Resources:
Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness – Cass Sunstein & Richard Thaler
Factfulness: Ten Reasons We’re Wrong About the World – and Why Things Are Better Than You Think – Hans Rosling
Look Again – Cass Sunstein & Tali Sharot
AP: Trump’s budget office rescinds an order freezing spending on social grants
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The Art of Deciding has been featured in The Guardian Podcast Newsletter, Podnews, The List, and the Podbible newsletter, amongst others.
The Art of Deciding is produced by Podcart – https://www.podcart.co.uk/
Series Producer: Jayne Morgan
Bruce Whitfield is an award winning journalist, best-selling author and speaker
